Episode #025: Best of Mobile Matters
This is a special episode of Mobile Matters because it marks our six month anniversary for the podcast and our 25th episode. Given these milestones, we’re doing something a bit different. Instead of having a guest from one of the world’s top brands share their expertise, we've put together my favorite insights, advice, and best practices that 23 guests on Mobile Matters have shared so far. Think of it as your mobile master class...from some of the top marketing and tech leaders in the world.
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Stephanie Cox: I'm Stephanie Cox and this is Mobile Matters. Today is a special episode of Mobile Matters because it marks our six month anniversary for the podcast and our 25th episode. Given these milestones, I thought we'd do something a little bit different this week. So instead of having a guest or one of the world's top brands share their expertise, I've actually put together my favorite insights, advice, and best practices from all the guests that we've had on the show so far. So think of this as your mobile master class from some of the top marketing and tech leaders in the world, let's get started.
My very first guests and interview for Mobile Matters was the SVP of digital marketing and strategy and omnichannel commerce at Simon Property Group. Patrick was a wealth of information about numerous mobile topics, and honestly, I could have talked to him for hours. But the one topic that really stuck with me during our conversation was his guidance on how to transition your company to a mobile-first mindset and how he personally makes a conscious effort to do that.
Patrick Flanagan: It's an ongoing grind to rewire your team's brain, your enterprise's DNA. This is hard, right? So especially as a business user who like I'm guessing a lot of the listeners sit in front of a laptop or a desktop machine. A lot of our daily life are first and foremost driven from a desktop type experience. When I’m doing work at my desk or in my office, I’m on a desktop browser experience. So a lot of times it's so easy to when someone sends you a link say hey, we want your feedback on this to literally to not look at it first. Is it so easy just to click the link in your email client and it opens up on my huge 26-inch monitor here? To go you know what I’m not gonna click on it there. I’m going to pull out my phone and I'm going to go multi-device here for a few seconds. I'm going to look at it first and foremost on my mobile device.
Stephanie Cox: When I chatted with Marsha Villasenor who leads digital messaging at Markle. She brought up one of my favorite hot topics related to email marketing that really tends to send fear down the spines of so many email marketers out there. Gasp everyone, purging subscribers, even though we all know getting rid of an unengaged subscriber is actually better for our brand in the long run. We're also fearful to do it. Take a listen to what Marsha had to say.
Marsha Villasenor: If I'm sending something repeatedly and you're not opening it and you're not responding, you're not interested. You're not interested in my product, you're not interested in my message or you don't want to be engaged with through that channel. And that's where you really want to look at the behavior. Well, they're not responding to SMS, but they're opening every email. So, maybe I should stop sending SMS and focus on email or vice versa. It's where you really need to take the customer behavior into account based on your message.
Stephanie Cox: Another topic that’s come up a few times in my interviews with guests is regarding native mobile apps and the challenges that many brands face with them today. One of the comments that really stood out for me in my conversation with Dave Galante was about how crucial it is for brands to provide ongoing value with their native mobile app if they want true customer engagement. Take a listen to what Dave had to say.
Dave Galante: Yeah. And I think to get in that top five home screen real estate, you’ve got to add value every single day. In the app world, too, there is this app apathy, where you’ve got a lot of apps and if you’re on that second or third screen, it’s like a graveyard.
Stephanie Cox: One of the hottest mobile topics right now is all about 5G and the impact it’s going to have on all of us pretty soon. So when I wanted to have a guest on the podcast to talk about 5G, I honestly couldn’t think of anyone better than Bill Soards, President of AT&T Indiana. During my interview, he gives one of the best summaries of 5G that I’ve ever heard.
Bill Soards: So, 5G networks will certainly be faster. In fact, many believe that 5G networks will be about 100 times faster than today’s 4G LTE networks. But, over the years, as we’ve gone from one generation to the next, speed has been about the only differentiator. And certainly, there’s going to be a heck of a lot of speed that comes with 5G networks. Instead of thinking about megabits, we’re going to be thinking about gigabits per second. But that’s just one small facet of 5G. Latency is a huge part of what 5G is going to bring to us and latency is the time it takes when you push play on your mobile device to play a movie or when you hit a web link on your device, to pull up that web browser. It may be half a second or less today in a 4G world.
Stephanie Cox: My next guest on Mobile Matters in episode five, was Guilda Hilaire. She’s the Senior Product Manager for Marketing Technology at Aetna, a Salesforce Trailblazer, and an overall digital marketing rockstar in my opinion. In this episode, Guilda and I talked a lot about so many relevant topics that I think all of you can benefit from. But the one piece of advice that I think most marketers steer away from involves making friends with legal and compliance colleagues. Here’s what she had to say on the subject.
Guilda Hilaire: And with mobile, you still need to involve legal, you still need to involve compliance, you might need to involve your IT teams or your developers. But have a sounding board that understands the regulation processes and understands your overall mobile strategy. Get them involved early on in order for them to help you make the right decision.
Stephanie Cox: We’ve also talked about some of the megatrends influencing technology and how brands will need to engage with consumers, and there was nobody better person to have that conversation with than Rob Martens, president of Allegion Ventures and global futurist for Allegion. Seriously how many times do you get the opportunity to talk to someone whose title is futurist and is tasked with what trends are going to majorly impact businesses moving forward? Let’s hear what Rob had to say with the major trends in technology that you need to be aware of today.
Rob Martens: When you look at trends that are impacting technology going forward, many of them are based on connecting things that historically haven’t been connected, such as the IoT. And there are some serious megatrends at work there. Sensors are more available and less expensive than they’ve ever been and you can see that trending down, in terms of their cost. All of the data that those sensors generate is less expensive to transition through the pipes, if you will, than it has ever been before and that trend is continuing down. And then, the actual tools that are used historically to make dirty data into usable, clean, viable information for people to use, those tools are more accessible and less expensive than they’ve ever been. So those three megatrends alone, along with mobility, are driving a whole new generation of IoT solutions, even past what we started with just a couple of years ago.
Stephanie Cox: Occasionally on Mobile Matters, I have the opportunity to chat with a guest that gives me what I like to call a “hot take”. And I absolutely love hot takes everyone, more to come on that in a future episode. And Shawn Schwegman, co-founder and Chief Strategy Officer at DemandJump definitely had a hot take when he said it might be time for all of us to accept that the marketing funnel might actually be broken. Take a listen.
Shawn Schwegman: I think what marketers are starting to wake up to is that a funnel is broken. We used to believe and many marketers still do believe today that the funnel has broken up into four layers and at the highest level, you have awareness and then you have consideration then decision and a purchase. And so they build campaigns to target users at each layer. But, what we’ve realized is at the bottom of the funnel, you get awareness, consideration, decision, and purchase. You get it all. At the top of the funnel and you only get awareness. Said another way, if you’re spending money on awareness campaigns to build the brand and when that user is ready to buy, they don’t see you. You just wasted your spend, right? So we believe marketers are waking up to the fact that they have to fill the funnel from a budget standpoint, from the bottom up. Until they don’t have any more money. It makes no sense to waste money on pure-play awareness campaigns for this, just branding for the sake of branding. And while branding is important, it’s more important that your branding from the bottom of the funnel all the way up.
Stephanie Cox: Now let’s talk near-field communication, or NFC for short. You may not be familiar with the name, but I know you're familiar with the technology because it's what powers Apple Pay and it has the potential for so many other mobile experiences. Let's hear at Tim Daly from NXP had to say about how you should be thinking about using NFC for your business.
Tim Daly: What I’m worried about is that brands are going to view NFC solely as a marketing channel for their benefit. And if that’s the case, then rest assured NFC will not go the way it should go. However, if you offer true value so value is unique to each person. If you could offer unique value to each person for taking the very act of taking their phone out and touching it to your products and engaging. Then you’ve got something interesting and value is relative to each person, it’s relative to where you are at that moment in time and what you’re doing. So if I’m in a supermarket and I’m hell-bent on buying 10 boxes of Kraft macaroni and cheese and you’re going to offer me two for one right then and there because I’ve touched my phone to your package, and I’ve engaged with you. Well, that’s of value to me at that moment in time. If I’m buying a Nike jersey and I’m going to a game and I touch my phone and I get a VIP ticket upgrade, that’s really cool, that’s of value. But it can’t be, it can’t be generic push messaging that’s so prevalent in marketing and advertising. It’s got to be customized, contextual, personalized messaging. Because I said earlier, it’s through the mobile device, the mobile device knows who I am, it knows where I am, it knows what I like, it knows what I don’t like. And plus, I can make payments with it. You can harness all of that with NFC, so make sure your messaging is contextual and harnesses those functions. Make it cool. Make it personal. Make it value-added for me.
Stephanie Cox: When I had the chance to talk to Taylor Webster from Lowe's, he shared a lot about how they're thinking about mobile strategy at Lowe's and how they're measuring its effectiveness, but one of my favorite parts of our conversation, was when he made a point about how crucial it is to remember what industries you’re in and what really matters to your customers. In a world full of shiny objects that can be distracting and we all can chase, I think his Insight is something we all really need to take to heart.
Taylor Webster: It all starts at your core customer base and then what your industry is. To me, it's this way I like to look at it and strip it all away, what is my main purpose here in my industry? For me at Lowe's, it's to sell products and to sell those products, ok? So what does my customer need? From a digital standpoint, I need to be able to visualize products. So yeah, AR is important to us and this was a hard thing about selling a product on like Lowe's.com or in an app or somewhere. Like, I don't know if it's going to fit. I don't know if it's the right color. It's a nice grill, but I don't want to buy the grill that has like this a bunch of burners on it and I set it on my patio. And now, I have no patio left because it's the whole size. AR has a great place for that. And I think we saw a lot of that retailers coming through this past year with the Amazons and a bunch of other folks are really pushing that that visualizations. We have too, we have it on our Android platform at the moment. But at the end the day, our customer is ready to think about it in that light. Because that is a tool that can help a customer close the deal, per se, or feel comfortable. They're confident about a purchase that they're making. But we haven't really seen the adoption enough to say that customers are quite ready to use that technology, for that purpose. And so, we scale back and focus back into the core. Which is how do we help product information and finding and information and actually deals and whatever the other content the customers are actually seeking. But, staying focused on what is your main purpose, having solid KPIs and solid purpose from the business plan, is really where it needs to pull out from. Into how you make decisions on that front.
Stephanie Cox: I’ve had the pleasure of interviewing a ton of great guests on Mobile Matters, but I was literally awed when Alex Russell from Google agreed to be on the show. He's seen as the father of Progressive Web Apps which are fundamentally changing how mobile and the web work. And his interview was so phenomenal that I had to make it in two episodes. Now, let's hear directly from Alex about the genesis of PWAs.
Alex Russell: Imagine if all of the apps on your phone, and increasing on your desktop, are just web apps. That is to say, they actually are web apps, you build them to put them on the web, but they have that deep system integration. What’s the difference between where we have been and what’s required to be there. That space in the middle, that’s what we really work on, and that’s what the genesis of progressive web apps has been.
Stephanie Cox: When I chatted with Spencer Burke, the VP of Growth at Braze, our conversation quickly focused on how brands can drive phenomenal results with their mobile efforts, whether that's through a mobile campaign designed to drive adoption or something like a push notification. take a listen to Spencer's advice on how you should be thinking about your mobile marketing efforts.
Spencer Burke: It doesn’t need to be gimmicky. It doesn’t need to be over the top. You don’t need to overuse humor in what you’re doing. And I think a lot of people feel like, I’m sending a push notification, I don’t have that much space so I need to say something really funny or clever like it’s Twitter, or it’s not going to resonate with people. And I think you don’t need to do that, if that’s not your brand or if that doesn’t relate to your product. So, just focusing on the fundamentals of who your customers are, who your brand is, how you can make a great experience. I think when you do that, it all kind of just dovetails nicely into something that’s really rewarding and adds value to your customers' entire experience and then hopefully to their broader life.
Stephanie Cox: While most of my guests on the show are usually marketing leaders, I actively seek out engineering and product leaders too because I believe their expertise can be tremendously beneficial to all marketers. So when I have the chance to talk to Drone Deploy’s VP of Engineering, Eric Hauser, I dove in to find out what he's thinking about when he's developing their mobile-first product and he shared something they're doing a Drone Deploy that I think really every software company in the world needs to start doing immediately. Take a listen.
Eric Hauser: And so, we actually set goals for our engineering team. And so, this year we’ve got a goal that every engineer is going to go out and visit a customer on-site and write up a set of learning and kind of send that back to the team. Another really great way to kind of engage with your customers is to get our engineers involved on this with our sales team and have engineers participate on sales calls, where they’re talking to new prospects so they can learn a little bit about what those prospects are trying to accomplish. And so, we look for kind of interesting and innovative ways to kind of introduce customers into the process for fewer people who normally wouldn’t be customer-facing. I think your product managers and your sales team and they have easy ways to get interactions with customers on a daily basis. But I think it can be a little bit harder for engineers. So we’ve put some effort into that and, I think it really helps pay off in the development of our software because we can think about customer first use cases.
Stephanie Cox: If you’re familiar with the martech landscape at all, then you've likely seen Scott Brinker's Martech 5000 landscape super graphic at some point and fun fact, this year's version is actually more than 7,000 martech companies. When I spoke to Scott, we talked about a variety of topics ranging from why you should be experimenting with 20 percent of your overall tech-stack, to why the customer journey mapping process might need an overhaul, to why you need to be able to have a marketing team that's agile and feels the ability to fail quickly. But my favorite part of the conversation was we talked about tech-stacks and this propensity that everyone has to post a picture on a channel probably LinkedIn, of what their tech-stack looks like without any context whatsoever. So let's hear from Scott about why we shouldn't immediately look at that picture and go out and buy the same tech as everyone else.
Scott Brinker: There’s almost no technology you find in the marketing space that you just plugin and it magically starts generating customers and happy customer experiences for you. And so, yeah, I mean when you look at the tools a particular company is using, really you’re only seeing like a tiny sliver of what’s actually happening there. What you don’t get there is that sense of, OK well how are they actually, have they actually incorporated this? You know, into the customer experience and to the way they’re delivering, you know, marketing programs you know managing these different touchpoints. And yeah, if you just sort of chase after the tool without that context, yeah, you plug it in and well wait a second, I didn’t magically turn into a Procter and Gamble what happened here?!
Stephanie Cox: One of the great benefits of speaking with so many amazing leaders is that they actually introduce me to other phenomenal leaders that they respect and that's exactly how I got connected with my next to guests at Microsoft. After I spoke with Alex Russell from Google, he suggested I reach out and speak with Jeff Burtoft from Microsoft about Progressive Web Apps and then after talking to Jeff, he suggested I chat with another colleague of his that Microsoft Aaron Gustafson and he's been instrumental in the PWA space as well. So take a listen to some of the insights that both Jeff and Aaron provided in their interviews.
Jeff Burtoft: One of the great things about PWAs is that it’s helping different developers accomplish different goals. But, if you are comparing it to a native app and that’s actually one of the strategies that we see more and more often. It’s that we have this app and it’s in this store, we have an Android app, we have an iOS app, we have a Windows app. We would really love to have one app that runs everywhere. And so, if you’re comparing it to a strategy for native apps then you’re basically looking at the value prop you get for a PWA and the value prop that you get for a native app. And it’s a challenge sometimes to meet all of the goals that you get with a native. And, I can tell you that’s one of those things that we at Microsoft are thinking about all the time and the folks at Google and Mozilla and Apple are thinking about all the time, is how can we make that experience on the web just like a native one? I mean, if you think about just even like with some of the new CSS specs that are coming up with the Houdini and paint API. They’re designed around being able to create that same immersive experience for users that you can get on a native app. So, some developers when they’re looking at their strategy from that perspective they’ve got to figure out can I meet the same goals, the same design principles, the same needs that I’m meeting with my native app? And if I can, totally, let’s do Progressive Web Apps.
Stephanie Cox: What is the area that you find that most people struggle with when they implement their first PWA?
Aaron Gustafson: I think that we’re all struggling to figure out caching. I say this because it is sort of a tremendous opportunity and a privilege to be able to control what sort of users use this and I think that we can abuse that privilege. You know, we can cache way too much. If we were to cache absolutely every page that somebody visited, let’s say a very high image site maybe like a storage site or something like that, if you’re caching absolutely every asset, you’re going to fill up their desk space really quickly. And that just feels abusive to me.
Stephanie Cox: One of the concepts that I’ve been talking about on the show is that mobile is more than just apps. It's really about anything that involves a mobile device, whether hat's your phone, your tablet, wearables, voice, etc. and all of the content you're accessing or engaging on those devices. So since most of our website traffic is typically consumed on mobile devices, I knew I had to have an SEO expert on the show to really give us all a rundown on what's happening at SEO today. And my first thought was Rand Fishkin. Rand is the founder of Sparktoro and the former co-founder of Moz and pretty much the guru on all things SEO. So let's hear from Rand about what he sees as the biggest factor impacting SEO landscape.
Rand Fishkin: I mean I think that certainly one of the biggest, if not the biggest, is Google’s shift away from being a search engine that refers traffic, to a search engine that tries to answer queries with their own results. So, in fields like flights, hotels, weather, traffic, lyrics, film and television, medical queries–Google is essentially trying to present results that prevent you from clicking on anyone else’s website and just let Google themselves answer it or solve that problem for you and monetize that problem for Google. I think that’s been a very effective strategy for them, and for their shareholders, and it’s been immensely frustrating for everyone else on the Web. But, that is a reality. So I think a lot of marketers and a lot of SEOs have had to compensate with changes in their strategy in terms of diversifying their traffic, targeting keywords, and phrases that are likely to still have decent organic click through. Investing in paid advertising when Google presents data is kind of the only option above their own results or, potentially changing their business model to serve different audiences, different keywords, different subjects to deal with that.
Stephanie Cox: We really can't talk about anything mobile without having a guest share their expertise on how you should be thinking about the user experience. When I talked to Dan Laughlin, Senior Designer of User Experience at IBM iX, he provided so many great best practices about how you should think about structuring your design process so that you can have a wonderful user experience while also accelerating delivery, but my favorite piece of advice he shared has to do with why you shouldn't necessarily celebrate when you launch a new project. Take a listen to what Dan had to say on the subject.
Dan Laughlin: Yeah so, you know, there are a lot of places that I’ve worked that celebrate a launch and while launching is great, I think it’s wonderful to be able to track progress because the success of something that has been created isn’t defined by it being released out into the wild. It’s defined by whether or not it’s doing the things it’s supposed to do for the business and whether people that use it want to keep using it. So, analytics is a great way to measure based on KPIs [key performance indicators] that are defined early, as you know you’re setting out to make this thing having measurements after it’s launched, and being honest with those measurements, so not just reporting on measurements but reporting on measurements compared to the goals. So not, hey we had 300 visitors. It’s, hey, we had three hundred but our goal was two thousand, and here are the things we need to change to fix those. So that’s one way is just being understanding, that things don’t have to work perfectly when they’re launched. It’s an ongoing effort to make them as good as they can be and it’s OK if it’s not as good as you thought it would be. Be willing to change quickly.
Stephanie Cox: Personally, I have a strong hate of clickbait headlines. They're my least favorite thing. And one of those regarding marketing is the articles that claim an email is dead. There have been numerous studies that refute this topic, but it seems to be ongoing headline literally every year. So when I had the opportunity to speak with the head of research at the Oracle Marketing Cloud Consulting and all-around email marketing guru, Chad White, I knew I had to get his perspective on this very topic.
Chad White: I think this is the most ridiculous storyline ever and I don’t know why this storyline isn’t dead. You know, this really all started with social media. It started with Facebook, with Sheryl Sandberg and Mark Zuckerberg and them making pretty disparaging comments about email and how email was dying as a way of self-promoting. All right? They were kicking email to make themselves look better. And I think it’s really interesting to me, that this story continues to have traction given what has happened over the years.
So first of all you know social has morphed from earned media very strongly into paid media. So like the whole premise of social media has shifted gears and during this time, email’s value prop is largely the same despite a lot of changes sort of underneath the surface. So, compared to some other channels, email has a lot of really powerful strength and we just prattle off just a few. Which is why I think this conversation is kind of so ridiculous. First of all, ubiquity–everybody has an email account and there are more email accounts than Facebook accounts by a longshot, and there are quite a few Facebook accounts! So ubiquity, it’s the account of record. Everybody has an email account. That’s where all their receipts go. That’s where all their password resets go. It’s the status quo. More importantly, and I think this sometimes gets lost in the conversations about other channels and particular social, email is the channel that consumers want. It’s a channel through which consumers want to engage with brands. Other channels are preferred channels for interpersonal communications, communications with friends, but if you ask people how they want to receive updates, notifications, and other types of messaging from brands, the vast majority of them say email. It has been that way for a decade! It’s undisputed that email is the channel through which brand communications are most welcome.
Stephanie Cox: I had the great pleasure of conducting three episodes live from MMA Impact, which is a Global Marketing conference hosted by the Mobile Marketing Association. My first interview was with a marketing leader from a historic brand that we all knew and loved when we growing up and that our children interact with every day, Crayola. Take a listen to Crayola’s VP of Marketing Communications and Interactive Platform, Josh Kroo had to say about how we should be messaging consumers.
Josh Kroo: I think the expectations of the consumer, there’s certainly still a role absolutely for push marketing and reaching mass audiences, but I think that there’s a desire to engage consumers in a way that they are extracting way more value. I think they expect to get way more value from the engagement that we have with them. So, the way that we have to think about marketing is that I can’t just do a TV ad and reach the masses. I’ve got to surround them with content and things so they are engaged in. That could be content on an Amazon page to help them buy the product better that they’re looking for, to, you know, video content that helps them engage better with their kids. But, I think as brands and as digital marketers, that’s really the biggest push is that I don’t just want to throw stuff at the wall anymore. I want to have things that connect with you on a one-to-one basis
Stephanie Cox: One of my favorite parts about this show is the chance to chat with other senior marketing and tech leaders, and it's been especially gratifying when that guest is a phenomenal female leader, such as Rochelle Hartigan from GE Lighting. The conversation I had with her at MMA Impact was full of great insights and best practices and my favorite part of our talk was when she shares about her perspective on failure and when we all have to get comfortable with it. Take a listen.
Rochelle Hartigan: Yeah, I think that going with the mindset that it’s okay that there are going to be some things that fail. We know that not every tactic that’s new and a new shiny object is going to be successful, right? There are going to be some that just don’t deliver what we thought they would. And that’s OK. I think it certainly hurts my heart when it was a part of my budget that I could have put into something else, but the risk was, what if it turned out great? And sometimes and quite often, it really does.
Stephanie Cox: If you can't tell by now, I love talking to marketing and tech leaders that challenge the status quo and ask the thought-provoking questions, and that's exactly what Brent Bouldin, VP of Marketing Media and Customer Acquisition at Choice Hotels did when I talked to him at MMA Impact. My conversation with him was full of thought-provoking ideas. Take a listen to one of my favorites that he brought up.
Brent Bouldin: When I first got into this space, digital marketing was sort of a niche if you will. There was traditional marketing and digital was a group of subject matter experts that sat off to the side. And over 10 years or so, the entire world has gone digital and I don’t even know if digital marketing is necessarily a thing anymore because digital marketing and marketing are one and the same.
Stephanie Cox: One of the iconic brands that's really been pushing the envelope on how they think about marketing lately has been Campbell Soup Company and their VP of Digital Acceleration, Matt Pritchard, has been leading that charge. During my conversation with Matt, we talked about what he's doing at Campbell Soup but really ended up spending a majority of our conversation talking about what it means to be a mobile marketer and let me tell you he's got a great perspective on the skillset that we all need to be successful marketing today. Take a listen to what Matt had to say.
Matt Pritchard: Look, as I think I say to my team and to people who embrace the world that we’re in from a modern marketing perspective, I think you need three skills to underpin all of your approach. That’s curiosity, passion, and resilience because it’s not easy trying to change, not just a marketing organization, the organization that goes around marketing, say finance, say HR, say supply chain. So, it’s a really tiring job point because you’re trying to change a legacy of what’s been done before, but I think you’ve got passion and curiosity that gets you some of the way. And I think one of the biggest things if I think about my team at its highest level, I split into two things. One is about providing subject matter experts where you don’t need to duplicate those resources because you can apply them better centrally. And then, two, to build the skills and capabilities of our marketers in the organization. And I do that through four pillars. The four P’s of capability of digital, I call it. One, they are people capability, process capability, partner capability, and platform capability. So it’s not just about getting the best platforms, because if you haven’t got the right people skills, no one is going to use the platforms. Likewise, there’s no point in having everyone brought in as modern marketers and then not having the right partners or the right platforms to go after it. So, I think the hardest thing for people like me is to balance out, not what you can do but what you should do in a strategic way and paint that roadmap so that everyone understands what they’re working towards. But the heart of it is understanding the consumer as in anyone else and then engaging with that consumer in the best way.
Stephanie Cox: It has been an absolute pleasure talking to this group of marketing and tech leaders over the past six months and everyone weird just getting started. I cannot wait for you to hear from the other leaders we’ll have on the show in the coming months. So if you're loving the content, you're here each week on Mobile Matters, then please take a minute to rate and review this podcast on iTunes. I would absolutely love to see your feedback. And please follow me on Twitter @stephaniecox04 and I'd love to see tweets from all of you about the guests that you want us to have on this show in the coming months. I'm Stephanie Cox and you've been listening to Mobile Matters. If you haven't yet be sure to subscribe, rate, and review this podcast. Until then, be sure to visit Lumavate.com and subscribe to get more access to thought leaders, best practices, and all things mobile.